Curse

frojack · Mar 29, 2006, 09:08 AM // 09:08

This has probably been discussed already but..

I've wanted this for as long as I can remember while playing my warrior in GW. I then watched the new Factions Cinematic and now I just want it even more

.

So to allow myself the opportunity to at the very least, continue breathing normally, here are my ideas...

Sword Elite: Musashi's Hand - Skill

Cost: N/A
Recharge: N/A
Cast time: N/A

While using Musashi's Hand, you are able to wield a single handed weapon in each hand, but you are unable to use shields. Attacks under Musashi's hand deal 50% less damage and you have -20 armour.

Notes:
-Attacks under this skill deal 50% less damage but in essence, your blades strike more frequently. In-line with a 50% attack speed increase, similar in essence to Flurry but skewed higher.

-Frenzy would be the death of you. It would not even increase your attack speed over the 50% line either, same with Flurry. So you just give the opposition free double damage or a further 25% percent off of your base dmg to equal 75% less damage (attack power lessening will, in GW spirit, stack :P ).

-Obviously a shield can not be used in tandem with this skill. So you lose the all of the bonuses that a shield would give you. You do however gain double the benefit from some weapon mods. Example:

mods that stack:
x2 +30 hp mod = +60hp*
x2 zealous mod = +2 nrg/strike, -2 nrg regen
x2 vampiric mod = 6 life stealing, -2 hp degen
x2 armour mod = +10 AL, +14 AL against Physical, or +14 AL against Elemental.*

*These would most likely be the preferred mods for anyone dual wielding.

mods that don't stack:
20% longer enchantments
33% (condition) lengthening

All mods will merely count on the individual weapon strikes. So for example, for each strike you will gain 10% chance of double adrenaline. Why you would want this though, is beyond me. Considering the hideously efficient nature of Musashi's Hand's inherent adrenal building. Sundering would also still mostly suck. Weapon mastery +1 would still be what it is, elemental also, and so on...

Obviously the interesting thing here would be to use different sword hilts in tandem.

Vampiric+Zealous: Or their various combinations would probably be the top choices. Twin vamp + Order of the Vampire for all the true killers out there. Twin Zealous for near infinite nrg during combat.

Or Zealous/vampiric+Furious: Nice buffs all round.

-Hidden bonus: User's of Musashi's Hand gain double the benefit from the Ripostes. Thus at 16 tactics, Riposte deals 168 dmg and Deadly Riposte deals 158.

(Edit: Actually I'm probably on serious drugs with that last idea. 168 armour ignoring dmg from a 4 adrenaline, unstoppable skill is ridiculous. Plus the Ripostes stack, and can be delivered simultaneously, which would total 326 dmg before you even hit em' back equaling the greatest spike in history :P. Strike that from the list. )

This is still probably hugely over-powered. I haven't done the maths but I bet the numbers are completely unacceptable.
Also, it might be unfair to Axe users (hammer is double handed so :P). Maybe aligning it with tactics or strength would be better.

-The balance I suggest is the requirement for a skill slot taken over completely by a skill that isn't usable in battle (like pet usage).
-The need for WYS at all times to mitigate the armour issue.
-The fact that shields can't be used at all.
-Heal Signet O_o? You serious...?

The main reason I like this idea is the opportunity for a unique warrior play style. Sacrificing defence for increased attack flexibility. You can even dual wand if you want to, lol.
I do predict there will be a lot of W/Me (the death of the Wammo?) since they can use the defence stances. Those however come with their own costs. Plus stances can easily be removed.

The simple truth however is despite the need for more balancing, and perhaps a lot of weakening, I would not use any other warrior elite. Ever. Quite literally

.
It is for this reason that I doubt we will ever see it in the game, as I know there are a lot of like minded warriors who would do the same

.

shardfenix · Mar 29, 2006, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

mods that don't stack:
20% longer enchantments
33% (condition) lengthening

Why?
and why?
If you do half damage without an attack speed increase, let them have double enchant and double condition duration. This skill has zero uses other than basically those 2.

Nevin · Mar 29, 2006, 11:28 AM // 11:28

40% enchantments would be too much.. Could you imagine Illusionary Weaponry people? and 66% longer conditions is just too much.

DarkZeal · Mar 29, 2006, 04:07 PM // 16:07

I would just want to see a shield skin that looks like a sword, even if it just acts like a regular shield.

frojack · Mar 29, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

Why?
and why?
If you do half damage without an attack speed increase, let them have double enchant and double condition duration. This skill has zero uses other than basically those 2.

Hi. I can understand your point, but I think you are missing something...

Quote:

Notes:
-Attacks under this skill deal 50% less damage but in essence, your blades strike more frequently. In-line with a 50% attack speed increase, similar in essence to Flurry but skewed higher.

This should be more than enough to make up for the loss. In fact, part of the reason I believe this to be a bit over-powered lies here...

1. Normal attack speed is 1.33/sec, roughly 80 strikes per minute. Under Musashi's Hand, this is increased by 50%. Making your attack speed 1.995/sec, more or less 2 Strike/Sec, equaling 120 strikes a minute. If Flurry equates to the same DOT over a certain period as normal attacks, the numbers here should be the same as well (this however, may be incorrect).

2. Since you gain an extra 40 attacks, 50% more than before, you have a much higher chance of landing a critical hit. This significantly raising the DOT of Musashi strikes over that of the norm.

3. Damage reduction (of Flurry) does nothing to lower the damage of attack skills. If Galrath Slash strikes for 43 armour ignoring damage, it should still do so under Musashi's. (over-powered?

)

4. Vampiric damage. Can not be mitigated. Even Mist Form is no protection against it. At 80 strikes per min, with a perfect vamp mod, you steal 240 hp. Under Musashi's, this becomes 360 hp. (over-powered?

)

5. Potential energy gains and adrenaline are self explanatory.

All this is easily worth the loss of a shield and -20 armour. The mods that don't stack? What Nevin said...

Thanks for reading

.

frojack · Mar 29, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkZeal

I would just want to see a shield skin that looks like a sword, even if it just acts like a regular shield.

Problem with that is, your warrior would never strike with it. That would just look stupid.

pappayaponta · Mar 29, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Oh yeah this is so good!! Very good and detailed post, all I can say is congratz.

/signed

suiraCLAW · Mar 29, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

imagine that you have 6 W/mo with this spell, vic spirit and live vicaurlious + an order necro and somebody that can spam martyr.

120 strikes that each give you 10 (vic spirit) + 12 (life vic) + 17 (if oov) = 4 680 health each minute (if you keep hitting) or 78 each sec. (38 regen)

if you use a vamp mod that becomes almost 5000 hp each minute (2400 of them are stolen).

lets say every warrior hits for 5 dmg each strike + 3 from vamp mod + 17 from order -> 25 each slash -> 3000 dmg from one person in 1 minute -> 18000 from 6 warriors in 1 minute -> damage of your team each second = 300

off course, they warriors will never be able to hit that much, but your warriors will use attack skills etc.

so believe me: it's pretty overpowerd.

Lexar · Mar 29, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Dual wielding isn't suited for warriors. Not talking about game balance or whatnot, but just style. It doesn't go well with the image that Anet gives us of warriors. The warriors seem to be more the archetype of knighthood giving them heavy armor, shields, and discribing them as the bravest of the brave, and two swords just doesn't fit well with this idea.

A lot of people want options to give their characters wings, or wolf ears, aura's etc, and this is another one of those ideas where Anet just for the sake of coherency just doesn't give in to popular demand, and rightfully so.

Besides assassins as the more agile typed characters fit dual wielding a lot better, and I'm sure there's some pretty big knifes out there that kinda pass for a sword, just as there are some big and small axes, swords, etc.

Besides I don't have heavy platemail armor myself, but dual wielding swords seems like it's a lot harder and requires a lot more freedom of movement than wielding one sword, and I think it would look pretty silly if they'd do that in armor. Warriors dual wielding assassin daggers looks silly already.

actionjack · Mar 29, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Dual Wield has been asked to death before. Afterall, who would not want this awsome way of fighting.

Alot of different ways have been suggested before as well... from the "2nd weapons as a offhand item", to "dual weapon as a set (like assassin's dagger)" to "allow equip all single hand weapon on both hand".

The Third approch, as you suggested (and address) does run into some problem with Mods and stackingness, as well as the attack speed issues.

Here would be my take on it.... (since I had give it lots thoughts when trying to write a dual-wielding concept class)

first, I would reject having double standard treat to the mod. It just make it too complicated. Either make it the off-hand's weapon's mod disable (save for the damage type mod), or make it's mod half effective (so have 2 20% mod give you totall of 30% longer time) I would go with disabling it.

On issue of attack speed.. which would effect the adrenaline gain, thus might make some skill overpower. You could keep the same attacking speed, but up the damage with double attack. So in compareson between the two:
(A be the single hand wielding.. B be the dual hand wielding)

1st strike
A: attack with main hand weapon
B: attack with main hand weapon

2nd strike
A: attack with main hand weapon
B: attack with 2nd hand weapon

3red strike
A: attack with main hand weapon
B: attack with both weapons for (1.25...1.5) more damage.
(repeat)

Also I don't think there is need for making it as extra skill (but could include skills to make duel hand wielding even better)

Also another "perk" I want to see with such dual hand weapon system would be the ablity to equipe 2 differnt type of weapon (say axe and sword) Which would allow you to use skills from those two attribute at once! but wonder if that would be unblance.... *scratch head....